[--- this was probably sent in to the old "LeninList" on June 8
The 4 week delay was due to the time it took for the
LeninList to reappear as Leninism-International -- ed]
To: leninist-international@buo319b.econ.utah.edu
Subject: L-I: fwd Klo McKinsey re LL9806028 Richard Bos:
re: The "D of P" and the internet in the modern world
Date: Thursday, July 02, 1998 2:28 AM
> > Ben Seattle wrote:
> > >
> > > Now my formulations are not necessarily the last word on this
> > > topic and are subject to criticism and improvement. And I
> > > welcome comments from readers (who I also invite to read "The
> > > Digital Fire"). But the point is that I am unaware of any
> > > political trend that has dealt with this subject at all. Will
> > > the dictatorship of the proletariat censor the internet? It is
> > > a question that cannot be avoided--but avoided it has been to
> > > date.
> >
> > Klo's reply,
> >
> > I was unaware it was being so thoroughly avoided. Well, then, by all
> > means we do not want to avoid it any longer. I hope I have confronted
> > it to your satisfaction.
>
Richard says,
> I have just caught up with this discussion, and would take a similar
> position to Klo, so I won't repeat every thing he said. I have spoken to
> comrades from Cuba and Vietnam on the subject of the internet. They do
> not have any problems about discussing censorship of the internet. Why
> should people who degrade women and children in pornography be allowed
> freedom to seduce people into allowing them to pump their stuff into
> their homes?
My reply,
Of course; that's only common sense. Only those making billions
off its distribution or victims of propaganda and lies generated by its
creators would believe otherwise. The same applies to preaching race
hatred and anti-semitism. It is not going to be allowed, period, and
that's that, and if that alienates thousands of people, then so be it.
It is still not going to be allowed, regardless of what critics say, and
they might as well get used to it. Filthy language and pictures as well
as actively organizing for the overthrow of socialism will not be
allowed either. You have to maintain some kind of standard of decency
if your society is not to degenerate into the cesspool that dominates
all private property systems. Moreover, the bourgeoisie are not nearly
the free speech advocates they claim to be. Every society draws lines.
The dispute is simply over where they should be drawn.
Richard says,
In the same way why should the enemies of socialism be
> allowed the freedom that they would take away from others if they felt
> it was a threat? Imperialism has no scruples and will use every means at
> it's disposal to undermine the Dictatorship of the Proletariat. We are
> faced with an enemy that has in the past, and will in the future, murder
> people in their millions; that exploits and manipulates the masses every
> day to further their endless greed. If we are soft on them for one
> moment they will take full advantage of that.
My reply,
Not only that, but they have tremendous wealth and resources to draw
upon to combat the masses, while about all the latter have is numbers.
If the masses don't employ force and ruthless determination, it is a
foregone conclusion that they will be crushed if not obliterated. What
else could happen? What else do they have to fight with? What else
could they employ? What do they have in the way of resources, besides
numbers? They don't own anything; they don't have the means of
production like factories or the means of distribution like trucking
lines; they don't command or direct anything; they are not in charge of
anything; they don't receive anything that is produced; they don't have
the bulk of the weaponry and firepower; they have no representatives in
charge of the military forces or in the command and control structure;
they have no representatives in the legislative, executive, or judicial
branches of the government: they don't have control of the
communications system, and they don't have anything approaching the
degree of planning and coordination that exists between elements of the
ruling classes throughout the world. For the masses to win under those
conditions with anything other than a dedicated, determined,
disciplined, unified, leadership and mass following that is willing to
employ whatever it takes to get the the job done and countenance no
dissent is out of the question. Those who believe otherwise are living
in a dreamland and that is why those who have opposed the tactics of
Lenin and Stalin over the years have never gotten anywhere with respect
to combating the bourgeoisie. They have never won a battle, never
liberated a nation, never led a populace, never been a real force on the
world scene, and never accomplished anything of real significance. In
fact, the bourgeoisie have always regarded them as something of a joke,
as they now think of real Marxists-Leninists.
Richard says,
>
> That does not mean that we take away anything from the working class.
> Dictatorship of the Proletariat means that complete power is in the
> hands of a class which didn't have any power before. It belongs to the
> working class. It is their state to do with what they will. It will
> allow ordinary people to develop their potential to the full, to express
> their ideas to make life better, and be listened to by their brothers
> and sisters. Of course there will be discussion and debate within the
> class about the best way to move forward, but that debate and decisions
> made must be within structures decided on by the working class and
> no-one else.
>
> The Party of the working class is not a party like the bourgeois
> parties; It is a party of a new type which operates the principles of
> Democratic Centralism. There may be other parties which do not oppose
> socialism, co-operate with the working class party, and accept working
> class leadership, but would certainly not be in competition with it.
>
> That will only be possible if, when we take state power in any part of
> the world we defend it from attack.
>
> I think you should read some more Lenin Ben.
My reply,
I told Ben the same thing, Richard. He missed some key fundamentals.
We are not out to be popular with everyone. We are out to do it right,
that's what matters, and in any society dominated by class struggle,
pleasing everyone is out of the question. I would not even try. A lot
of people are going to hate us with everything that is in them. And
believe you me, that won't be half as much as I despise everything they
stand for. Capitalism dominates this planet and the condition in which
the overwhelming mass of mankind lives is nothing short of horrendous;
it's appaling; it's sickening. To fail to see that the latter is
directly attributable to the former is go through life with blinders on,
a victim of propaganda that has cost billions of dollars.
>
> Richard.
>
> --
--
The Best to you Richard
Klo
--
--- from list leninist-international@lists.econ.utah.edu ---