Subject: LL9804429 Ben Seattle replies to Louis Paulsen 
         (LL9804.408 -- discussion of "Trotskyism")
Date:    Saturday, April 25, 1998 3:32 AM


Louis Paulsen LL9804.408:
    "Furthermore - this is probably a utopian suggestion, but I'll
    make it anyway - I suggest that we all respect each other as
    people who are seriously trying to build socialism, at least
    subjectively, and not treat each other as if we were bourgeois
    agents, lunatics, and so on.  Furthermore, we would do well to
    try to look at our opponents' positions and try to see their
    justifications."

I think that Louis's comments constitute one of the most intelligent and
useful posts that I have seen on LeninList.  More than seven decades
after Lenin's death--the communist movement worldwide is in a period of
very serious theoretical crisis.  One symptom of this crisis is that
there are immense theoretical differences between people who consider
themselves to be communists.  But thru a process of intelligent
discussion (*greatly* facilitated by internet forums such as this and
others) communist activists, I believe, will gradually sort out the
decisive issues.  Such a process of intelligent discussion will involve
listening to others and paying attention to the strong (as well as the
weak) points of the arguments of our polemical opponents.

The basic framework which I use, in trying to understand the decisive
problems in building a united and powerful communist movement--is the
framework of overcoming the *twin diseases* of sectarianism and
reformism.  Both of these diseases have a material foundation.  These
diseases support one another and can only be effectively fought
together.  A serious fight against sectarianism requires a fight against
the reformism which gives birth to sectarianism and which justifies it.
Similarly, a serious fight against reformism requires that sectarianism,
which gives ammunition to the reformists, also be opposed.

Reformism can be understood as the politics of *unprincipled
cooperation* with political trends that are under bourgeois control.
Such unprincipled cooperation leads to the loss of politics and
organization that is in opposition to bourgeois interests.  The material
basis for reformism is a kind of bribery, in which reformist trends can
develop seemingly great strength because the bourgeosie, in effect,
loans them resources, publicity and other kinds of cooperation as long
as these trends work to dull the consciousness and initiative of the
working class.

Sectarianism can be understood as the *failure* to engage in *principled
cooperation* with other trends.  Put another way, it involves
*unprincipled competition* with rival trends.  Such a failure to engage
in principled cooperation with other trends occurs every time that we,
in reponse to an opponent, attempt to paint that opponent as a "black
hat" with little or nothing useful to offer the communist movement.
Needless to say, such behavior is very widespread  ;-)

The failure to engage in intelligent discussion with others can be one
symptom of a sectarian attitude.  The root of this policy, which I call
"information isolation", lies in the instinctive recognition that one's
cherished ideas (which in many cases are the glue that holds an
organization together) might not fare very well in open and principled
competition with opposing ideas.

The material basis for sectarianism lies in the competition of various
left trends for the political loyalty and financial support of
activists--which are required to support and finance a central press and
a full-time staff.  In the darwinian struggle for existence and survival
against other left trends, polemical decency can be a distinct
liability.  This is especially true when the level of political culture
among activists is low.

The internet, and the further development of forums to discuss marxism,
will help promote principled cooperation and principled competition
between trends.  The cultural and political level of activists will
increase and sectarianism and reformism will more effectively be fought.
This is one reason that I believe an internet-based news service will be
instrumental in the creation of a world-wide communist movement that is
worthy of the name.  The other reason--is that such a news service will
ultimately have immense value in drawing the masses closer to all
progressive trends.

I have been rambling enough--so at this point: I will stop.

Ben Seattle
----//-// 24.Apr.98   www.Leninism.org

I do not normally quote an entire message that I am commenting on but in
this case am making an exception.  The original message follows:
-----Original Message-----
From:    Jim 
To:      leninlist@cag1.demon.co.uk
Date:    Wednesday, April 22, 1998 2:51 PM
Subject: LL9804408 Louis Paulsen re Discussion of "Trotskyism"

To Andrew, Klo, Paris, and other people who intend to discuss "Trotskyism":

It is going to be very hard at best for you to have a constructive discussion, and I think it will be impossible unless you bear the following points in mind.

1. There is no point in discussing "Trotskyism" as a -historical- phenomenon unless you link it up somehow with what people believe or do in the present day. Present-day self-defined "Trotskyists" organize around certain themes, issues, and principles, which they believe to be the enduring and relevant contribution of Trotsky to the present-day struggle for socialism.

2. With regard to the period before February of 1917, "Trotskyism" represented two things: (a) a belief in conciliating the Mensheviks with the Bolsheviks, and (b) a disagreement with Lenin on the formulation of the nature and tasks of the proletariat in the making of the revolution, centering around Lenin's slogan of the "Revolutionary-Democratic Dictatorship of the Proletariat and the Peasantry."

However, neither of these things are emphasized by present-day Trotskyists. With regard to (a), Trotsky openly acknowledged that he had been wrong and no present-day Trotskyist favors "conciliating with Mensheviks". With regard to (b), all present-day Trotskyists favor the line that Lenin actually adopted in 1917, and nobody puts forward a "Trotskyist" theory of revolution in a largely-agrarian country as distinct from a Leninist one.

3. With regard to the period from February of 1917 to the death of Lenin, Trotskyists contend that there was no such thing as a "Trotskyist" position distinct from a "Leninist" position, and that Trotsky functioned as an equal member of the Bolshevik leadership, not differing from Lenin on important questions any more frequently than any other leading Bolshevik.

4. It is in the period following the death of Lenin that differences between Trotsky and other Bolsheviks start to clearly emerge. Some of them, however, relate to specific problems of the economy, of industrialization, of agriculture, and so on. To decide who was right about electrification, for example - when did it become practical, who proposed it, who said what about it, and so on - would require more historical and specialized economic knowledge than we are likely to possess here. At any rate, nobody becomes a "Trotskyist" today because of his position on rural electrification.

5. There are, however, some issues which came to the fore after the death of Lenin; which clearly delineated Trotsky's positions as distinct from Stalin's; and which self-defined "Trotskyists" believe to be important in the world today. These are the issues around which parties and groups organize in the year 1998. These include:

- The prospects for development of socialism in a single country. Trotsky believed that it would be impossible for the USSR to survive indefinitely under conditions of encirclement without revolution in other advanced countries, which made aid to such revolutions a matter of survival.

- The proper role for socialist countries to play with regard to working-class and revolutionary movements in other countries. Trotsky believed that socialist governments must clearly show their solidarity with the workers and oppressed, and not lend legitimacy to imperialist governments.

- The question of bureaucracy. Trotsky believed that in its conditions of isolation, scarcity, and weakness with respect to the capitalist market, a revisionist bureaucracy was developing, not merely in the economic and state structure but in the party as well. The basis of this bureaucracy was the privileges associated with managerial posts. He believed that this bureaucracy weakened socialist society and that elements in it might eventually stage a counterrevolution.

- Class independence. Trotsky believed that the policies recommended to communists around the world by the CPSU under Stalin's leadership, such as "workers and peasants" parties, the "popular front", and so forth, weakened the working class and the socialist movement.

I recommend that the discussion focus on these issues, because these are the issues which are on people's minds when they identify themselves as "Trotskyists", because they believe these issues to be relevant today. Nobody goes out and becomes a Trotskyist because he or she thinks that Trotsky was right to make the August bloc of 1912, to take an extreme example. They go out and become Trotskyists because they believe there was a non-revolutionary and revisionist bureaucracy in the USSR before its fall, and/or that there is one in the People's Republic of China today, and they believe that Trotsky's critique will help them understand this phenomenon.

I also believe that the discussion should look not only at what Stalin and Trotsky said in the 1930's, but at what we say today about these issues. Perhaps Trotsky was wrong in the 1930's about a privileged bureaucracy growing up in the party, which might make counterrevolution. However it is now manifestly true that a privileged revisionist bureaucracy DID eventually grow up in the CPSU, of which Gorbachev was the representative, and DID make counterrevolution. If Trotsky's analysis of this phenomenon is the wrong one, what is the correct analysis?

Furthermore - this is probably a utopian suggestion, but I'll make it anyway - I suggest that we all respect each other as people who are seriously trying to build socialism, at least subjectively, and not treat each other as if we were bourgeois agents, lunatics, and so on. Furthermore, we would do well to try to look at our opponents' positions and try to see their justifications. For all of these positions of Trotsky or of Stalin, if treated one-sidedly and undialectically, can become harmful to the struggle. People become Trotskyists because they oppose class collaboration. But if this is taken one-sidedly, this sentiment leads to sectarian isolation. People become Stalinists because they are offended by petty-bourgeois sectarians. But if this is taken one-sidedly, it leads to a contempt for revolutionary theory and to tailing after liberals. People become Trotskyists because they want to criticize revisionism. But if this is taken one-sidedly, it leads to opposition to socialist governments and support for counterrevolution. People become Stalinists because they are proud of the achievements of the revolutions of 1917 and 1949 and want to defend them. But if this is taken one-sidedly, it leads to blind and uncritical "boosterism" (I hope this word has meaning outside the U.S.) and a renunciation of the duty to provide an independent analysis. I believe that Trotskyists are in fact always in danger of being overrun by petty-bourgeois sectarians, but on the other hand Stalinists are always in danger of being infected by the conservative sentiments of non-socialist secions of the working class and of slipping back into Browderism and liberalism.

There, now everyone is probably angry with me equally! :-)

Louis Paulsen
member, Chicago branch, Workers World Party
http://www.workers.org